Voting about Systemd

Given that many contributors and loyal Debian users did not get a chance to vote on the controversial introduction of systemd in Debian, we believe that such a possibility must exist, albeit unofficially.

Therefore, we invite you to express your voice at least in this way.

Guests are also welcome to discuss.

Please have respect for those who differ in opinion

Mnogi verni korisnici kao i oni koji doprinose Debianu nisu dobili priliku da glasaju u vezi kontroverznog uvođenja systemd u Debian. Pošto smatramo da takva mogućnost mora postojati, makar i nezvanično, pozivamo Vas da svoj stav iskažete bar na ovakav način.
Gosti su takođe dobrodošli.
Molimo vas da imate poštovanja prema onima koji imaju drugačije mišljenje

Haha “Guests cannot vote”.

Yes, sorry for that…but you are welcome to register to vote :slight_smile:

I would but this vote isn’t very clear, can you explain what the options mean?

In short, the second option means that debian users must have the ability to choose whether to install it or not sistemd
The current situation in debian testing/jessie: option 1 is the only option

And what is “The current situation in debian testing/jessie: option 1 is the only option” supposed to mean?

This means that an ordinary user can’t easily install the system(jessie/testing) without systemd

We call it “Systemd way” :slight_smile:

But that is not true.

We think it is :slight_smile:

hint: ordinary user…not DD, or super-power user :slight_smile:

So
[FONT=‘courier new’]apt install sysvinit-core[/FONT]
is too much for an ordinary user? (Hint: Ordinary Debian user, not ordinary computer user)

So?
this install does not remove systemd from system, nor set sysvinit as default init :slight_smile:


[email protected]:/home/dragan/Desktop# apt install sysvinit-core
Reading package lists… Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information… Done
sysvinit-core is already the newest version.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 84 not upgraded.
[email protected]:/home/dragan/Desktop# pstree
systemd─┬─ModemManager─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─NetworkManager─┬─dhclient
│ ├─{NetworkManager}
│ ├─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─VBoxClient───{SHCLIP}
├─VBoxClient───{X11 monitor}
├─VBoxClient───{Host events}
├─VBoxClient─┬─{HGCM-NOTIFY}
│ └─{X11-NOTIFY}
├─VBoxService─┬─{automount}
│ ├─{control}
│ ├─{cpuhotplug}
│ ├─{memballoon}
│ ├─{timesync}
│ ├─{vminfo}
│ └─{vmstats}
├─accounts-daemon─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─agetty
├─anacron───sh───run-parts───apt───sleep
├─applet.py───{gmain}
├─at-spi-bus-laun─┬─dbus-daemon
│ ├─{dconf worker}
│ ├─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─at-spi2-registr───{gdbus}
├─atd
├─avahi-daemon───avahi-daemon
├─console-kit-dae─┬─62*[{console-kit-dae}]
│ ├─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─cron
├─4*[dbus-daemon]
├─3*[dbus-launch]
├─exim4
├─gconfd-2
├─gnome-keyring-d─┬─{dconf worker}
│ ├─{gdbus}
│ ├─{gmain}
│ └─{timer}
├─goa-daemon─┬─{gdbus}
│ ├─{gmain}
│ └─{pool}
├─gvfs-afc-volume─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{gvfs-afc-volume}
├─gvfs-goa-volume───{gdbus}
├─gvfs-gphoto2-vo───{gdbus}
├─gvfs-mtp-volume───{gdbus}
├─gvfs-udisks2-vo─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─gvfsd───{gdbus}
├─irqbalance
├─lightdm─┬─Xorg───2*[{Xorg}]
│ ├─lightdm─┬─sh─┬─ssh-agent
│ │ │ └─xfce4-session─┬─Thunar
│ │ │ ├─xfce4-panel─┬─panel-1-mixer─+++
│ │ │ │ │ +++
│ │ │ │ ├─panel-17-xfce4+
│ │ │ │ ├─panel-2-action+
│ │ │ │ ├─panel-34-whisk+
│ │ │ │ ├─panel-5-places+++
│ │ │ │ ├─panel-6-systra+
│ │ │ │ ├─xfce4-orageclo+
│ │ │ │ ├─xfce4-xkb-plug+
│ │ │ │ ├─{gdbus}
│ │ │ │ └─{gmain}
│ │ │ ├─xfdesktop─┬─sh───gksu─┬─su──+++
│ │ │ │ │ └─{gdb+
│ │ │ │ ├─{gdbus}
│ │ │ │ └─{gmain}
│ │ │ ├─xfwm4
│ │ │ ├─{gdbus}
│ │ │ └─{gmain}
│ │ └─{gdbus}
│ ├─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─minissdpd
├─nm-applet─┬─{dconf worker}
│ └─{gdbus}
├─packagekitd─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─polkit-gnome-au───{gdbus}
├─polkitd─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─pulseaudio─┬─{alsa-sink-Intel}
│ └─{alsa-source-Int}
├─rsyslogd─┬─{in:imklog}
│ ├─{in:imuxsock}
│ └─{rs:main Q:Reg}
├─rtkit-daemon───2*[{rtkit-daemon}]
├─sshd
├─start-pulseaudi───xprop
├─2*[systemd───(sd-pam)]
├─systemd-journal
├─systemd-logind
├─systemd-udevd
├─tilda─┬─bash
│ ├─gnome-pty-helpe
│ ├─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─tumblerd─┬─{gdbus}
│ ├─{gmain}
│ └─2*[{pool}]
├─udisksd─┬─{cleanup}
│ ├─{gdbus}
│ ├─{gmain}
│ └─{probing-thread}
├─upowerd─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
├─xfce4-notifyd
├─xfce4-power-man───{gdbus}
├─xfce4-power-man
├─xfce4-volumed─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{task0}
├─xfconfd
├─xfsettingsd─┬─{gdbus}
│ └─{gmain}
└─xscreensaver
[email protected]:/home/dragan/Desktop#

It removes [FONT=‘courier new’]systemd-sysv[/FONT], i.e. sysvinit will be [FONT=‘courier new’]/sbin/init[/FONT]. So if you haven’t changed the kernel commandline (ordinary user!), your system will boot with sysvinit. What else do you want?

Are you seriously trying to change PID1 without rebooting?

Rebooted already :slight_smile:

Then you must have changed the default configuration to still have systemd as PID1. So you are no ordinary user (in your definition).

No, you are wrong…systemd changed kernel command line during installation :slight_smile:

Btw, why PID1 for systemd?
Hint: easy way to change PID1 :slight_smile:

I don’t know what you did to your system, but installing systemd on Debian Jessie does certainly not change the kernel command line. If it did, there would be no need for the [FONT=‘courier new’]systemd-sysv[/FONT] package.

Just for the record: These http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-systemd/systemd.git/tree/debian/systemd.preinst[/URL] [URL=“http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-systemd/systemd.git/tree/debian/systemd.postinst”]http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-systemd/systemd.git/tree/debian/systemd.postinst scripts are run on Debian Jessie/sid when installing systemd. Nothing in them changes the kernel command line.

I dont know what is special about kernel command line on my system :slight_smile:

linux /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64 root=UUID=97b3a6a6-efa3-432c-8f2a-8164331e9050 ro splash vga=769 quiet init=/lib/systemd/systemd quiet splash

Can you please paste here kernel command line from default Jessie?

Btw…I want to completely remove systemd from my system…can you in short explain how to do it?
Hint: from installed system :slight_smile:

[FONT=‘courier new’]$ cat /proc/cmdline
BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64 root=UUID= ro quiet[/FONT]